Queen of Sharp Pointies ([info]wandereringray) wrote in [info]pagan_skeptics,
2005-04-21 11:46:00
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Pagan Legitmacy

I'm curious. How do others respond to obviously stupid, fantasy-inspired requests/questions by other Pagans?

I'm on a fairly large Pagan message board where a Circle of Teaching has been formed. Now most of the time the classes offered are well thought out, good solid subjects. Sometimes they're a little wacky, but hey *shrugs* that's fine.

However, we had a person request a "Defense against the dark arts" class.

One of the other posters told her bluntly that this wasn't Harry Potter, it was Paganism.

And people got all up in arms about it. *sighs* How do you respond to this rampant stupidity?

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  • 20 comments

[info]power_puffs_lab

April 21 2005, 10:55:35 UTC 7 years ago

People got mad because someone said "we aren't Harry Potter"?

[info]power_puffs_lab

April 21 2005, 10:57:07 UTC 7 years ago

Was the origional poster being serious or going "this is a good name I'm going to steal the name".
a la

"Is there any kind of a class that talks about how do defend yourself in a magical circle or keep on the safe side, not mess with the wrong gods or entities, a defense a against dark arts class as it were?"

[info]wandereringray

April 21 2005, 11:20:55 UTC 7 years ago

It seemed to me they were pretty serious about it. *shrugs* But in print, it's hard to tell. They simply asked for a Defense Against the Dark Arts without any qualifiers at all.

People apparently got mad because they didn't think that the person who said this wasn't Harry Potter was being respectful. They went on to say that it was a good idea for a class because there are "dark arts" out there. *rolls eyes* I didn't comment on that part, but held myself to the Harry Potter issue.

[info]seshen

April 21 2005, 11:30:31 UTC 7 years ago

It continues to amaze me how pointing out fads vs facts is "disrepectful," yet we ask for respect from those who really believe that Harry Potter is portraying real life, because that fad attitude is all they ever see. The serious folks tend to just keep their mouths shut so they don't have to deal with the drama you point out.

[info]seshen

April 21 2005, 11:32:07 UTC 7 years ago

And yes, though the "dark arts" ARE out there, using a fictional book term for it is, actually, highly DISrespectful in relation to the seriousness of those arts. Perhaps that should be thrown into the mix. Would it happen to be on MW?

[info]power_puffs_lab

April 21 2005, 11:41:20 UTC 7 years ago

I agree that it is disrespectful but I think that it would be something that I wouldn't be suprised or upset to hear from someone new, I'd just correct them and move on. But when other people jumped in and tried to say I was a bad pagan for correcting them, well the gloves come off.

[info]vovinoiad

April 21 2005, 12:00:39 UTC 7 years ago

I don't know...I've found one of the best "defenses" against the "dark arts" is to NOT take them quite so "seriously". I've "won" more than a few "contests" (note use of quotes) by judicious use of humor.

(It's amazing how all kinds of evil-doings get deflated by one well-placed "Whoa, now, reign it in, Voldemort." comment.)

[info]wandereringray

April 21 2005, 12:54:28 UTC 7 years ago

*wry smile* But of course.

[info]seshen

April 21 2005, 13:16:20 UTC 7 years ago

Email me the thread.

[info]wandereringray

April 21 2005, 13:27:40 UTC 7 years ago

*rolls eyes* I can if you still want it, but one of the site owners just came on and said "it's not about you, it's about the community and if people want it then we'll give it to them"

*snorts* What the *&$K ever. I think I'm done over there. I don't have a problem with being tolerant and respectful, but I have a hard time dealing with people getting to do anything and say anything they want to no matter how stupid it might be and the rest of us are just supposed to *take* it in the interest of being respectful.

Whatever.

[info]dinpik

April 21 2005, 21:00:22 UTC 7 years ago

And yes, though the "dark arts" ARE out there, using a fictional book term for it is, actually, highly DISrespectful in relation to the seriousness of those arts.

Thank you.

I hate, loathe and despise the "trend" of calling non-Pagans "Muggles". You want your religion taken seriously? Stop treating it like fandom.

[info]c_korone

April 22 2005, 07:11:38 UTC 7 years ago

You want your religion taken seriously? Stop treating it like fandom.

Bingo.

[info]nightwind2

May 24 2005, 23:14:52 UTC 7 years ago

You want your religion taken seriously? Stop treating it like fandom.

This is SOOO my new "thought of the moment" on my website. (My "moments" last an awful long time. The last one has lasted 3 years. *sigh*)

[info]power_puffs_lab

April 21 2005, 11:35:27 UTC 7 years ago

Hm....
I can understand a new person asking for a class. That I'm ok with, that's how you educate them. But people saying that correcting them about HP vs witchcraft is bad? That hurts my head.

Although this is something very hard to do in a grown up and respectful way it needs to be done.
HP=fiction
witchcraft=craft
wicca=religion
But no matter how you do it you'll piss someone off.

[info]sunfell

April 21 2005, 11:12:21 UTC 7 years ago

I have a very low tolerance for stupidity of any sort. If the person is a young newbie (or a recent Christian escapee), I will quietly take them aside and explain The Facts of Pagan Life to them so that they can pull their heads out.

However, confirmed, reality-denying Fluffbunnies are fair game, and I blast them with both barrels. They've had their chance.

[info]ankharah3

April 21 2005, 12:13:36 UTC 7 years ago

You asked, "How do you respond to this rampant stupidity?"

For me, I've found it best not to respond when I read something that inspires irritation in me. I go on to hope whoever does respond can do so with a greater measure of class and patience than I have managed to squeeze out of myself. Per those instances when it's oh-so-tempting to let fly, I try to steal myself and remember the times I've said or done "stupid" things, whether in my younger years or yesterday (and man have I made some bone-head mistakes!). If that's not working, I try to remember that somewhere, sometime, there will be someone who's response will, with grace, make my flying insults look just as rampantly "stupid" (meaning lacking in intelligence and wisdom, riding on pure self-centered emotion) as the original question or comment.

I hope that helps ;)

[info]simchaland

April 21 2005, 13:06:51 UTC 7 years ago

However, we had a person request a "Defense against the dark arts" class.

If this was asked in the HP context then I laugh and cry with you.

And, Cornelius Agrippa does have something to say against defense against the "Dark Arts." Real counter-magick is a Pagan thing. It isn't like it is in fiction. A little education there would be nice for this person rather than slamming the door shut.

It might be an opportunity to turn a fluffybunny into a non-fluffy Pagan.

Also there are other respectable Witchcraft books that deal with counter-magick in a serious way that might be of interest in that community. It's non-fluffy. An example is out of print but you can find it in some places:
"Mastering Witchcraft" by Paul Huson. It's very non-fluffy and it even has the purpose behind hexes and curses in there.

Good Luck,
Simcha

[info]heimskringla

April 21 2005, 16:24:51 UTC 7 years ago

As someone who sat through courses on demonology and been admitted to the minor order of exorcist... it doesn't really sound all that loopy, despite the name being borrowed from Harry Potter.

It wont do much for your credibility if you start borrowing course names from popular works of fiction, but it might not be a bad idea to offer a series of survey courses on "evil" or "negative energy" or whatever term happens to be most popular amongst the group you're working with.

[info]elvengeek

September 14 2005, 22:40:28 UTC 6 years ago

I hate the mentality that tolerance= being tolerance of BS including people who distort the facts.

I will sheepishly admit that I've been known to use the term Muggle, though mostly tongue-in-cheek. Only among friends, not in the general public. That would be stupid and a bad PR move for a minority group to make.

I'll also admit that while sci-fi and fantasy have influenced my spirituality I know fiction from reality- I wouldn't try to start a group based on the Mists of Avalon, and then claim it was an ancient Celtic tradition.

[info]moonvoice

September 18 2005, 03:05:13 UTC 6 years ago

How do others respond to obviously stupid, fantasy-inspired requests/questions by other Pagans?

Sigh audibly and think 'why did I ever agree to moderate at this forum?' and then patiently go about de-toxing them of fluffiness.

Heh. The one you're talking about sounds like TCC or MysticWicks, what I find personally terrible is that I can; off the top of my head, think of about three to five large sites which would nurture such stupidity. *sighs*
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